Back in 2010, you had to search the corners of a campus to find the identity synthesis—an account of social power according to various identity groups. A decade later, the identity synthesis had become the dominant ideology of countless foundations and corporations, not to mention colleges, universities, and the Democratic Party. The takeover of elite culture was complete before you might have even noticed it was happening. As a consequence, the very concept of human rights has been jeopardized.

Yascha Mounk tells this story in his new book, The Identity Trap: A Story of Ideas and Power in Our Time (Penguin Press). Mounk is a professor of the practice of international affairs at Johns Hopkins University and a contributing editor at The Atlantic. He sees in the next decade a battle of ideas and power with enormous consequences. He writes, “What is at stake is no more or less than the basic rules, principles, and background assumptions that will structure our societies in the coming decades.”

According to Mounk, the identity synthesis threatens our stability, solidarity, and social justice. It’s a trap to define ourselves by the groups of our birth. At the same time, Mounk argues, you’re not “woke” if you observe that minority groups are sometimes treated unfairly, we should fight against such injustice in our society.

These debates have likewise roiled churches in the last decade. And that’s why I wanted to interview Mounk to give an outsider’s perspective that could add light to all the heat in disagreements among Christians. He joined me on Gospelbound to discuss free speech, the October 7 attacks, why he speaks out from inside elite culture, and more.

Probably my biggest disagreement with Mounk comes out toward the end of the interview. We debated whether Christianity is necessary to uphold universal values such as human rights. With the recent MSNBC dustup over whether rights come from God or government, you can see why a little different wording can change the course of history.