Pandemic. Cultural change. Political polarization. Technological disruption. No wonder I always open the Gospelbound podcast about searching for resolute hope in an anxious age—all that was true even before Russia invaded Ukraine.

Mark Sayers doesn’t mince words about these challenges in his new book, A Non-Anxious Presence: How a Changing and Complex World Will Create a Remnant of Renewed Christian Leaders (Moody). But he sees them as a potential prelude to revival—not a quick fix but the result of spiritually renewed leaders with stamina, pain tolerance, and emotional discipline.

Leaders in an ever-changing, anxious environment must learn to rely on God and not on their own abilities. That’s why early success is one of the worst things that can happen to them. No one alone is sufficient to the task of Christian leadership in an internet age when we’re everywhere and nowhere at once.

I’m honored to once again host Sayers, my first repeat guest on Gospelbound (he was featured all the way back in episode 3). For this new episode we talk tribalism, anxious systems, maturity, hardship, and finding Christ in a world at war.